Bun Toons Writes Itself! YAY!

Ya can't write this stuff....or at least I can't.

Ya can’t write this stuff….or at least I can’t.

Oh, internet.  Are ye always going to be this way?  Sigh…

comedy writes itself websizeI tried, and tried and tried to put a funny “spin” on this event, but nothing was funnier than the event itself.  I’m not sure who pushed the first domino to get this over-reaction going (I think it was Jezebel.com, but I could be wrong), but whoever they were, they gave internet journalism a bad name.  And yes, I know exactly what I’m saying with every word in that sentence.

And now, please let loose with the barrage of comments telling me I’m wrong and how as a man, I can’t understand any of this….before I tell you how much of this bun toon was actually written by my wife.

Ty the Guy OUT!

Your bonus moment comes from a completely non-controversial moment from a Harley Quinn comic.  I think it even won an award or something.

it felt like a kiss

….because complex abusive relationships are art, but naked shoulders are pornography.

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Click here for LAST WEEK'S controversial DC Comics moment...all fixed by the Bun Toon.

Click here for LAST WEEK’S controversial DC Comics moment…all fixed by the Bun Toon.

Click here for the COMPLETELY UPDATED Bun Toons archive

Click here for the COMPLETELY UPDATED Bun Toons archive

39 responses to “Bun Toons Writes Itself! YAY!

  1. Paul the Curmudgeon

    “It felt like a kiss”–I’m reminded of Phil Spector’s most controversial song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f20Oz9Yr_So
    –which was probably inspired by Rodgers and Hammerstein’s Carousel or its parent play, Ferenc Molnar’s Liliom. All very disturbing stuff~!

  2. The internet doesn’t do irony.

    Also, five dollars says someone accuses your wife of “internalized misogyny”, because there’s a subset of feminists who’re paternalistic like that.

  3. The important thing is that DC Comics has found another way to let women know they are not welcome in the fandom, their thoughts and reactions are of no importance. In belittling their POV, you have shown why such overreactions occur, because people who are constantly insulted and marginalized become defensive.

    Guess what, Mr. Templeton, you are part of the problem.

    • Hi ATC,
      Okay, I’m going to defend Ty here. I’ll start by saying he’s one of my nearest and dearest and that he’s literally saved my life, so I may be biased.

      Ty is not perfect. Sometimes he say things that I think are sexist. Sometimes we disagree on issues (this is one of them, by the way.) Sometimes he lives in his own Ty world and thinks his own Ty thoughts and the things he creates reflect that.

      However, I have never known Ty to be dismissive of alternate opinions, especially ones voiced by women. I’ve known him to be a staunch supporter of the rights of women, and this is reflected in his work. I’ve known him to take a stand against other creators when he thinks things they have said, done or created were sexist or oppressive. Ty is a feminist man. He is an egalitarian and he makes a point of encouraging and mentoring female creators. He is part of the solution in how he lives his life and how he deals with women. He is not perfect, but if he offers up an alternate opinion on this, I’ll listen because he has a track record of support for women.

      In the end, he will listen just as openly to what I and you and every other woman here has to say, because he opens these conversations BECAUSE it interests him. If you offer him a nuanced, researched reason why this panel contest is problematic, he will listen. He may even change his mind, or yours. He’s cool that way.

      On that note – a heads up to the guys posting here: I’m pretty sure Ty didn’t post this as an invitation for folks to crap on feminism or feminists and their opinions or reactions, since he is a feminist himself. I’d love it if we could all discuss this like the intelligent and diverse bunch of awesome people that we are.

      KTHXBAI.

      • Feminism is like socialism: you’ll find a lot of competing opinions under the umbrella–I’m an egalitarian feminist, too. I’ve been complaining about sexism in comics for decades. But I still wish people weren’t so quick to assume the worst. And I’d like a jet pack and a time machine.

      • I’m sure Ty is a nice guy but I am old enough to remember the Civil Rights movement when a lot of good people who swore up and down they were not racist tacitly supported horrible things by trivializing those who were standing up, who were protesting and being beaten and sometimes killed.

        When a post concludes “Hey before you call me sexist, my WIFE wrote this, so there” I hear the echo of what I heard then. I’m sure you are all “awesome people” and you don’t have hate in your hearts, but believe me, I have seen it,good people without malice standing with absolute evil and not know it.

        • Do you really, sincerely think this is comparable?

        • Neilia? I’m curious. What are your favorite past issues of Harley Quinn? Do you have a favorite author or artist from the series? What else by Palmiotti have you read? Since the person whose side I am on in this mess is Jimmy Palmiotti, his wife, and mine, (and certainly not the patriarchy or any anti-feminist message) could you please spell out the absolute evil that Jimmy has perpetrated (not the misinformed overreaction from people who don’t read comics, don’t know the subject matter and have offered half-informed opinions that have been dictated to them by other writers)? I’m absolutely open to the ideas you’re brimming to share with us about the evil that Jimmy, Amanda and Keiren and I are standing with. Could you, please?

          Unless, of course, you’re not really familiar with what’s being discussed and tossed in two cents without merit, just to be snide. So, again, please…just so I won’t assume you’ve just egregiously insulted a group of people you don’t know out of sheer ignorance, please answer some of the questions above. Because, you know in your heart, if you don’t actually know the answer to any of this, you’re a parrot and not a person. Any squawking bird can repeat an opinion. Let’s hear how you formed yours.

  4. Nice. Well done guys. :)

    Some of the posts I saw were pretty hyperbolic, true. But you know this is not what they had in mind for that tryout page eh? I mean beyond your coopting it for a whole meta commentary. If they got this shoot for panel 4 and had other more explicit ones, which do you think they would opt for really?

    Jimmy’s dream sequence wasn’t really that notably bad I thought compared to many ready examples, but I did think as a talent hunt stunt it was rather narrow casting, and given their bad rep on this front a bit of a boner move to put it out there solo. I’d have suggested they take the idea of scouting some new blood this way and offer a few other guest page spots to try out for along side that didn’t make girl in compromising situations the core theme of the tryout.

    • It’s not a talent hunt. It’s a contest…the pitch was “draw this page and Dan Didio and Jim Lee might see it, and who knows what might happen”. Except the fine print points out that even if a page gets picked as a “winner” does NOT mean that it will absolutely get published and does NOT mean that the winner can expect any other work.

      As others have pointed out, it’s one page without a lot of opportunity to show off sequential work…but no matter the page, eventually someone would have pointed out that ONE page is not enough to show anyone’s sequential skills. Several pages for a tryout or a portfolio review is much more useful.

      • it was for unknowns, with the possibility of being published alongside some major names – points made in the pitch – called the “DC Entertainment’s Open Talent Search”.

        Not a talent hunt? ah….

        And yes, lack of story content also another great reason to put up two or three other pages to do. They didn’t think it through is all i’m saying, and given their flop on the broad subject of women in comics that was a rather bad, predictable, PR blowout in terms of doing anything for their image on that count.

      • I think it’s unfortunate Jimmy felt the need to take on the blame though, he had a hand in it but the folks that green lite it are paid to think more than blaming him suggests.

  5. It’s a contest the was presented as a talent hunt. People have since scolded the people who cried sexism for not taking the context of the story into account. Of course none was given at the time. It was four images that could be taken any way the artist wanted. Being naked in a tub doesn’t have to be sexual. Of course since Harley is currently a character that wears fetish gear and is portrayed in a very sexual/cheesecake way by the company if you wanted to show you “get” the character it would be odd to avoid that angle and go your own route. That is if the artist was looking to get hired for DC and not just doing it for fun. The reason this fire started is a lot of kindling was put down beforehand. Good on the people who cared and spoke up.

    • I really don’t understand these lack of context comments. The panel was on the same page as Harley in a chicken suit and Harley happily trying to commit suicide by whale. Did people really think this was supposed to be a serious and sexy scene?

      I understand the people who were upset because they’re not comfortable with suicide jokes, but the other stuff makes zero sense to me.

      • That’s rather odd, that you can understand being offended at suicide jokes but not get the gender issue side of it? If you take the content of the page seriously rather than excusing it on grounds of humour, then it’s at least as exploitative of her sexulaity as it is of the idea of suicide.

        Personally i’ve mentioned before i don’t think the page is exceptionally profoundly offencive on any front, it just as a test reflects an editorial attitude that many see as representative of the real perceived problem with DC.

  6. Whatever is entertaining, and isn’t my job or attempts to empathize with my failed personal relationships, works for me.

  7. The reaction isn’t just over the character description. It’s the crowd-sourcing ethic where the editors of DC get dozens, if not hundreds, of people to draw their very specific images (lurid or not), and then they pick and purchase.
    And yes, they asked the Internet to draw for them. DC didn’t solicit professionals or even semi-pros, they asked the whole Internet. Asking the entire Internet for subtlety isn’t the smartest move from a bunch of editors, even when the material isn’t as problematic as “naked suicide bathtub.” While your interpretation was on-model, there’s a lot of creepier images also on-model, also on the Internet … and all of them were requested directly by DC’s editorial staff to be drawn.
    So this was a three-level screw up: DC de-valued professionals with crowd-sourcing, they offended audiences by changing Harley Quinn’s outfit and characterization (for Suicide Squad), they reduced the value of artists with their crowd-sourcing stunt, and the subject matter they asked for is all-too-typical of an era where people see comic books as misogynist, scary, and ugly.
    It’s tough to be a single panel description, but it sure is easy to ask people to draw for you, for free.

  8. Funny suicides have a long tradition in comedy:

  9. Here’s what it is, in my humble bunny opinion.
    I feel the outrage for this panel is mostly manufactured to attack DC Comics for their recent treatment of their female characters (and creators). While I share that disappointment with the sexualized portrayals of Catwoman and Starfire, in the relaunch… (and the lack of female creators and lead characters in the New 52, which I also agree is a problem). I don’t see how this particular panel or script is related to any of that. It’s being pulled into the fight by people pre-disposed to look for DC’s missteps.

    In order to be upset by this panel, I have to assume facts not actually in evidence…that OBVIOUSLY, DC intended the panel to be cheesecake – even though the script does not call for it, (believe me, the writer would not hesitate to use words like “sexy” or “cheesecake” to get that across if that was the intent.) I don’t equate naked in the tub as instantly “sexy” with a character like Harley, any more than I would with a character like Joker. And nudity as comedy has existed in the culture for hundreds of years or “mooning” and “streaking” wouldn’t be funny. I did a fairly popular post on this very blog about the number of times DC and Marvel has stripped their characters naked for comedic fight scenes (many of them starting in showers and bathtubs) and the OVERWHELMING PERCENTAGE of those examples are male characters. That wasn’t from my lack of looking for female examples, it simply is a fact that stripping a character naked for comedy is primarily something DC and Marvel does to their MALE characters. I’ve heard people tell me this is absolutely not true, but I’ve done the research, I’m not going with my gut. (There’s no question that female characters are often naked in scenes that are meant to be sexy, but we are talking about a comedy scene in this script, and again, there is NO evidence the scene was meant to be sexy, only inference…)

    When I read that script, the scene that played out in my brain was comedic, and anyone with a basic skill set in making comics could create that page for comedy, presentable for the Disney channel with no overtones for sexuality whatsoever. None, none, none. There’s none of that on the page. And if I could present that page in a way that wouldn’t upset my wife, my daughter or any of my staunchly feminist friends (I associate with no other kinds of folks, believe me), then the script isn’t the problem, it’s everyone’s PERCEPTION of that script. Everyone keeps telling me that OBVIOUSLY the editors only wanted sexy/cheesecake for that panel because it’s self evident, but I’ve no evidence of that whatsoever other that people telling me it’s obvious because the New DC is sexist, and the Editors knew what they were doing, and these are not facts. They are innuendo.

    The same script calls for abusing a whale, you know. It’s the panel in front of the naked one, Harley is trying to get a whale to swallow her by abusing it. If DC Comics had a recent history of abusing whales for sport, and a greenpeace website had put out a headline “DC COMICS continues to abuse whales in yet another example of torture and cruelty” we’d all be upset by that, because we’d be hyper-sensitive to whale abuse. But given our current disinterest in comic book depictions of that outside of Aquaman and Namor, we’re all letting it go.

    DC has a recent track record of being awful with their treatment of female characters. I agree. They have a perception problem that they should be working to correct. I agree.

    But to me, this is crying wolf. It’s shouting about something that’s absolutely not even a 1 on the scale of anti-feminist imagery to be fighting against and it makes the good fight something that can be dismissed when it reduces itself to examples like this. It’s net-rage because of a slanted headline that took it all out of context, and assumed DC was on a cheesecake death-fetish talent hunt, when it absolutely was not.

    They were really trying to appeal to people who love to torture whales, it’s obvious to anyone who is pre-disposed to be hunting for that.

    Ty the Guy.

    • I agree on the general points, but same facts from another pov:

      Starting with the fact that yes. exactly. To many there was NO question that sexuality was an aspect of this 4 panel gag. And that’s not an aberration but due entirely to DC’s current rep on the subject of sexuality and their depiction of women. This is why DC should have seen this as presented, leading to this outcome. Really kind of predictable. Hey, context man! Matters even more in real life than in fiction!

      Being someone who always actively chafed at stuff like this and would try to find ways to depict things that were less exploitive feeling, and was always being told to make the tits bigger and sex it up more by editors, regardless if it said make her hot or not in scripts? I really doubt that for this book they want and are looking for someone to do it totally safe and NOT sexual. That something disney friendly was what was being called for. And that perception counts.

      Reasonable hypothetical you presented, but i don’t buy it. Some of the outrage did make it sound way way worse, and some started looking for all kinds of silly angles to complain about. But likewise i have to call bull a bit that hot was NOT called for here. The branding of Harley Quinn as of late has totally fallen in line with hot on hot and crazy, in new skimptastic little hot pants.

      Added to their rep as a company now on this issue broadly? it’s entirely predictable many have come up with the interpretation they have.

      DC should have known that, seen it coming by now. It at least looks like it’s mostly down to they just don’t get that it’s a problem.

      It looks like a kind of confirmation, because this to anyone looking in; and truthfully is the way bias and endemic things are entrenched.

      The established norm screens for the ideas it wants to present. And is blind to, or screens out anyone who descents. It’s not a conscious thing, it’s seldom really done with malice. Just looks like building on what you know and like from the inside.

      In this case, it looks like DC engaging in a behaviour that appears to confirm that anyone who works on their comics needs to be ok with how this looks.

      And really it will do that, help shape what kinds of ideas are brought to the table. If they really cared, or even wanted to seem too, that should have mattered and it would have not been a big thing to do the same things in general but put out a different message totally.

      Forget dressing up the sample script for a more general audience; being explicit for example about just how much comedy verses sex they wanted from this. Would have been a smart editorial call to stipulate the level of titillation to yucks they wanted. Especially if HOT was not what they wanted. But forget that, keep it as is, and open to interpretation, But don’t a.) seem to be, or b.) actually screen out anyone who has a problem with that side of comics by making this the ONLY try out option.

      Present some other scenes from other books that could work the same way as little guest artists spots, Say people need to do at least two to enter. Not too demanding will show some range and you filter out the one shot wonders.

      Make a point of the fact that collectively, the three or four single page scripts posted depict totally diverse narratives that really have the potential to show a comic artists skill, and don’t leave the impression to be JUST looking for more of the same the critics have a problem with.

      Then you can have your sexy comedy page that’s spot on for the character, without it looking like that’s ALL YOU WANT.

      It’s a pr move, but also a real viable practical response to the charge you stack the deck in terms of who is making the comics by whom you hire. Instead of taking a PR hit on a sour point, you can both look better and really be opening the doors to other kinds of stories from other kinds of story tellers.

      • But of course, i also don’t buy for a second that’s a door they really want to open right now. Be nice if they proved me wrong.

        • Part of why they chose this book was not for this page–it’s a collection of artists doing the pages, not just one. So the book automatically lends itself to the idea of a different artist for a page. As they have also listed only a few artists, it also becomes clear that the other artists are doing more than one page…possibly even a mini-story. Jim Lee, Dan Didio and Jimmy Palmiotti all said that this is a one-page dream sequence out-of-context from the rest of the story. Therefore, by having this page used you are not having any pro artists having to work around anyone else’s storytelling, you don’t have to worry about giving character references (which you would then have to worry would be all over the ‘net), you don’t have to worry about a non-pro having to create characters (which would present problems for DC as they would not own the characters until they’d paid for the page), you don’t have to give out the entire script (which you would then have to worry would be all over the ‘net).

          (And the argument that DC is doing this as a way of getting ‘free art’ to pick and choose from is probably one of the funniest things I’ve ever read. Yes, poor DC with no ability to find any good artists…golly. Sure they put in an appearance at all the major cons, and they send editors who have the ability to assess proper portfolios…but THIS is how they’re going to find their new major talent–by trawling the internet desperately hoping someone will send them some sexy Harley porn. Also? If DC Comics is desperate for any sexy Harley porn they would simply scroll through Tumblr.)

          Jimmy Palmiotti did not become the ‘scapegoat’ for this–Jim Lee spoke first, then Dan Didio. But when they spoke they had to speak to articles already posted–no one contacted them and asked for context. People wrote and posted articles making accusations then told them they had to provide context. Jimmy Palmiotti was at a con when all this broke and addressed it when the con was over. (His co-writer Amanda Conner has very little internet presence–although she did finally start up a Twitter account, she rarely uses it and Jimmy tends to do all the speaking/publicity for them as a team).

          In reblogging his statement, many have left out his postscript to it all,

          “All I write are strong female characters. Ever. Here is the short list: Painkiller Jane, Powergirl, Tallulah Black, 21 Down, Terra, The Resistance, Ame-Comi girls, Triggergirl 6,, Alice in Monolith, The lead in Queen crab, Retrovirus, Misty Knight and Colleen Wing, Beautiful Killer, Gatecrasher, and so on …. For those worried about Harley Quinn.”

          The joy of any controversy or historical moment is that everyone suddenly has the power of 20/20 hindsight–a hindsight denied to those at the centre of the controversy. Magically, everyone KNOWS that DC should have known that this page would be a problem…despite the fact that many originally reblogged it without even blinking. I personally spoke to several artists who had planned to submit a page. I posted the contest on Comic Book Bootcamp’s Facebook page and although hundreds saw the post and read the contest, no one posted a peep of complaint.

          This has also been a very lively source of conversation for people who do not read DC comics at all, let alone Harley Quinn. Their entire knowledge of DC’s ‘treatement of women’ is based on internet postings, not actually looking at the books and making a decision for themselves. So they accuse DC of a lack of foresight–when they themselves only possess the knowledge someone else has written up for them in a blogpost.

  10. Well, complex abusive relationships in a narrative work are art.
    But yeah… so are naked shoulders.

    I’d really like to know what exactly is going on here. All I know is that a couple websites started wrote an headline about “DC wants you to draw naked Harley committing suicide”, and that’s all the details I have.
    Now, if DC hadn’t just started a random controversy about forbidding lesbian marriage, if DC didn’t turn the first issue of Catwoman into softcore porn fanfiction, and, much more importantly, if DC hadn’t just TURNED MY FAVORITE COMIC BOOK CHARACTER EVER INTO A TWILIGHT REJECT (see: the Lobo “redesign”), I would have thought it was all some sex-ophobic overreaction.

    But DC did all those things, so… I don’t put it past them to make somekind of sexist Harl depiction.

  11. Come now, Bunny-Man (or is it Mrs. Bunny-Man), just like a Canadian, blaming it on the Americans again…

    (thinking… considering historical precedence… hanging head)

    Cheers!

    Steven Willis
    XOWComics.com

  12. Already expressed my thoughts on FB but since you moved the conversation here I guess I’ll reiterate some of them here. It’s only when you guys argue the idea that there is absolutely no trace ofsexism involved in this contest at all and that it is fine and appropriate for a contest that the argument breaks down. You argue about context then avoid accepting any of the context that goes against your point. For example, you ask people to take the page’s context into account yet no context for the page was originally posted. You refuse to consider the fact that this is a contest with a potential reward of having work being seen by DC and possibly published. No, no, it’s just an art contest guys. Exactly! According to you sending a message that DC is implying drawing hot girls is the only way to get their attention doesn’t mater, because only what is the head and decision-making of the artist matters and not the actual words DC put into the contest. You suggest that the word “naked” caused a knee-jerk reaction, essentially writing off most of the negative comments as the ravings of people whose opinions don’t matter. Yet if the word naked were removed from the description absolutely no change to the story or gag would occur; the very definition of “gratuitous”. I agree that this situation may have gotten overblown (And the timing with Suicide Prevention Day was just the cherry on top). Hello, it;s the internet. But at least some of these questionable things should surely have been spotted by a company doing proper due diligence before launching stuff. Yes, this is tied to other DC missteps. Why shouldn’t they be? DC is lumbering into public perception issues over and over and this one is of a piece with others. I’m also not big on the dismissive attitude presented in the various comment threads we’ve talked about this on that anyone upset over this may be crazy or foolish. We all say foolish shit at times. DC did it here. Ty does too. And usually when approached about anything he said that may have upset I have seen Ty take the criticism and explain himself or even adjust his position with the new information that has been presented. But here it feels like you’re taking too broad a stance to defend your position and conveniently ignoring much of the “context” you are insisting everyone hasn’t seen. I agree Palmiotti and Connor are great creators and play with these themes all the time. If any pair can strike the right balance creatively with all this its them. But even Jimmy admits he kinda screwed up. And Didio is famous for inflammatory comments and actions that infuriate and push away portions of DC’s fan base. To close your eyes and tap your heels and pretend nothing at all was wrong – nothing at all – is unrealistic.

  13. Dang the comment above was posted as Anonymous. Sorry. I forgot to sign in. I am not worried about Harley as a character in this case. She couldn’t be in better hands. The narrative of the page does, indeed, fit Harley’s darkly comic character. The good thing about this week’s Bun Toon is how it has encouraged discussion of artistic interpretation and the need for asking questions and exploring context before reacting to things. The internet is supposed to make access to that kind of information easy for us, but its power to allow humans to instantly respond to things in the heat of our initial emotion sadly outweighs it’s capacity for balance. The bad things is it plays fast and loose with the facts when it discusses meta narrative. If meta reading was required for an artist to enter this contest and do the work, it should have been included in the initial posting instead of relying on the assumption that all artists and fans would instantly understand and agree as to the subtext. Palmiotti admits as much himself. Instead of being funny it is simply heavy handed, dismissive and insulting of everyone who doesn’t agree with it. Essentially, we’re all stupid if you weren’t in on the joke which isn’t insulting because it being insulting is a part of the joke. See, stupid? It’s ironic that your last panels shows Harley laughing and feels the need to tell us this Bun Toon is funny when it’s not actually particularly funny at all. And that is meta hilarious. Gorillamdreamz

  14. I think the problem stems from the idea that NO ONE seems trusts the editors at DC to make a professional decision any more. There’s nothing inherently wrong with this script (I still can’t imagine it raising an eyebrow in the context of the story, without the sensationalist tone of the website article that first pushed this narrative we’re all discussing), but there is clearly a public belief that DC has become a bastion of sexism, and people have assumed malfeasance on the part of any and all people working at DC simply because they’ve been accused of it.

    It’s a little like all of us assuming someone working for Goldman Sachs is a criminal, because, well….who wouldn’t at this point? And DC Comics has their work cut out for them if people are thinking of them as the Goldman Sachs of comic book sexism.

    And yeah, this Bun Toon isn’t particularly funny (often they’re not meant to be…see the last time suicide came up as a subject ) http://tytempletonart.wordpress.com/2010/06/26/saturday-morning-cartoons-yay-2/
    But Harley is laughing because she, of all people, would find this hilarious.

    • Of course “NO ONE seems trusts the editors at DC to make a professional decision any more” because they have concocted entire storylines for the express purpose of telling aspects of the fandom to fuck off. They have taken something that is supposed to be entertainment, that readers came to for enjoyment, and used it as a means to anger, hurt and disappoint. Fans who have left sound like abused women who have left abusive spouses and half the time readers who remain sound like abused kids who don’t have the means to get away.

      How do you imagine anyone who has their eyes open for the last 5 or 6 years particularly would TRUST the editors and management of DC?

  15. Well I have to agree wth pretty all of your last points Ty. And thanks for the link to last suicide post. I had forgotten all about that.

  16. “I think the problem stems from the idea that NO ONE seems trusts the editors at DC to make a professional decision any more.”

    Well, YEAH. I think that perception is a large part of the issue. When someone continually behaves in a certain way, you tend to assume the worst whenever a situation offers itself up. When someone can pop up a website called: http://hasdcdonesomethingstupidtoday.com/, then you have a PR problem.

    I think you’re right that this whole thing got co-opted as part of the larger argument. On the other hand, if DC had any dang sense, they would have anticipated this reaction and pre-empted it. It wouldn’t have taken much effort to present this material in a light that wouldn’t have been so inflammatory to their detractors. Further, DC still seems to react off-the-cuff far too often on these issues (and to a lesser degree, so does Marvel), which exacerbates the problem. When something like this happens, folks should stay off their twitter feeds until they’ve vetted a uniform response. No one would expect this kind of response from their parent company at WB, so it seems kind of odd that DC continues to wing-it when these things occur. I think they could do a lot of damage control if they handled these things better.

    • And so consensus is reached! Everyone agrees completely with everything! YAY!

      At this point, I hope someone at DC comics is reading this very intelligently discussed set of comments here. Disagreements about the tone and levels of offence in the contest/script aside, the conclusions we all come to is that DC has a public relations problem that they can solve, but don’t seem to be interested in solving. And considering that Marvel is kicking DC ass in the floppy sales department, you’d think they’d be working towards the solving.

      I love DC Comics. I have loved ‘em since I could read, and have always felt it was my “home” company in the comics biz, though I work for Marvel and IDW and Valiant when I can, I always say yes to any DC gig I can find the time for. I get angry that they DON’T solve this public perception problem better than they do. It’s so f***ing easy, too.

  17. Hi Ty (and commenters) – I just wanted to thank you all for what has so far been a very civil discussion on this. Especially, Ty, thanks for the nuance. I’m not so into the panel of Harley as it’s presented (for reasons of creepy-for-women factors that make me uncomfortable with the attitude of it but also because I think Harley would come up with a funnier suicide than toaster-in-bathtub to go along with the whale-taunting), but I agree that context, and PR, are everything here, and I appreciate you discussing the nuances and being willing to both talk and listen. You win one internet, sir – carry on!

  18. Pingback: Hey, Look! Comics! (9/18/13)

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